“Eli’s sons were scoundrels
who had no regard for Adonai.
The rule these cohanim followed
in dealing with the people was that
when anyone offered a sacrifice,
the cohen’s servant would come,
while the meat was stewing,
with a three-pronged fork in his hand.”
-1 Samuel 2:12-13
Alrighty, after our little study of the 7 letters of Revelations, let’s get our bearings of where we’re at in our study of 1 Samuel Chapter 2.
The scene is Hannah has just dropped off her little boy Samuel at Shiloh where he will begin his service to the Lord under the Eli, the High Priest’s guidance.
There was only one problem with this situation.
We’re told Eli’s sons were a couple of scoundrels.
This dark situation ties in directly with our study of the 7 apostate churches in Revelations.
Apparently Eli’s sons would wander around to the cooking pots brought by the many worshippers who came to the Tabernacle to offer their vow and gratitude offerings (the different types of Zevah Shelamim)…
And then they’d take their long 3-pronged forks and poke them into the pots of boiling meat.
Whatever meat was left hanging on their forks, they’d eat for themselves.
Are you catching the depravity of this situation?
Worshippers who with the utmost sincerity would bring their sacrifices to the Lord…
And excuse the vulgarity of what I’m about to say…
But what Eli’s sons were doing was the equivalent of pulling out their members and urinating on them.
Because they were messing with God’s Holy Property.
What’s worse is that their actions had become normalized…
Eli’s sons had become comfortable with their sin…
And so had the worshippers who brought their offerings…
It wouldn’t be any different than a church performing a same sex marriage in the “name of Christ”…
What a joke and an abomination at the same time…
I dunno whether to laugh or cry at the state of the church in our day.
Anyways, back to Eli’s sons’…
What’s even more tragic is there was this sort of false spirituality attached to what they were doing…
The idea was that whatever meat was left sticking to the forks after dipping them into the cooking stews was a gift from God.
How is this any different than a group of Christians gathering together over a meal of roasted pork or ham and saying grace in the name of a Messiah who would never have eaten such unclean foods…
You wonder why religious Jews laugh at the hypocrisy of institutional Christianity?
Well, that’s just one example out of many.
CONNECTING THIS TEACHING TO THE NEW TESTAMENT
“Someone who disregards the Torah of Moshe
is put to death without mercy on the word
of two or three witnesses. Think how much
worse will be the punishment deserved by
someone who has trampled underfoot
the Son of God; who has treated as something
common the blood of the covenant
which made him holy; and who has insulted
the Spirit, giver of God’s grace!”
-Hebrews 10:28-29
Amen and amen.
Gim
Hebrews –
“10:28 A man who disregards Mosheh’s Torah dies without mercy on the word of two or three witnesses.
10:29 How much worse punishment, do you think, will he be judged worthy of, who has trodden underfoot the Son of ELOHIM, and has counted the blood of the Covenant with which he was sanctified a non kadosh thing, and has insulted the RUACH of grace?
10:30 For we know HIM WHO said: Vengeance belongs to ME, says ADONAI, I will repay. Again, ADONAI will judge HIS people.
10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living ELOHIM.”
Book of The Covenant – An Integrated Translation & Transliteration of the Hebraic Scriptures:
https://www.btc2023.net/1-prologue
We should at least acknowledge that they are thanking God, and in their hearts they think they are doing the right thing.
But what we think is right because our religion tells us it is right is too often not what God said is right, and despite their good intentions, they are still doing wrong.
If only they would read the entire Bible, and recognize (with God’s guidance) that their religion is based on letters Paul wrote that men have misused and misinterpreted to lead them away from the real messiah and what he taught, and not what God said HE wants us to do.
It is as I often say: when we meet God at his Throne of Judgement, and we tell him we only did what they told us to do, I can’t speak for the Big Guy, but I do believe he may say something to the effect of,
“I understand you did what they told you to do, but it’s what I say that counts.”
Yes, I agree there is divine leeway for forgiving what is done in ignorance with regards to Torah obedience…especially among the gentile crowd.
Acts 15:19-20-29 says…
““Therefore, my opinion is that we should not put obstacles in the way of the Goyim who are turning to God. Instead, we should write them a letter telling them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from fornication, from what is strangled and from blood.”
But let’s not overlook the part immediately afterwards where it says…
“For from the earliest times, Moshe has had in every city those who proclaim him, with his words being read in the synagogues every Shabbat.”
The understanding is that in due time…even the gentiles shall come under Torah obedience (of course to those laws only applicable to them).
Shalom.
So true: “I dunno whether to laugh or cry at the state of the church in our day.”
A local big church is allowing homosexual and sexually-confused attenders to be involved in any church activity, but they are not allowed to serve on a ministry team.
Are they being confronted with their sin — as I hope I would be if I sent signals that I had become “comfortable” with mine?
No they are not.
How many years before they can serve in ministry teams, but cannot be deacons?
How many years after that before they can be deacons, but cannot be elders?
How many years after that before all pretense of holy standards is dropped altogether?
Lord, come quickly.
A sad state of affairs indeed.
I haven’t studied this thing specifically but just chewing on this thought. All the sacrificial and ceremonial type laws were a picture of the spiritual, Christ had to fulfill the one to bring the spiritual. Peter was commanded by God, whom no sin is in to rise kill and eat. Which Peter would not for he never eaten anything unclean. It’s not what goes in a man that defiles him but what proceeds out of him. Not that I can show myself approved in this subject.
Thanks for your comment Nick but I think that’s a common misunderstanding…
Read this: https://messianic-revolution.com/l11-29-did-peters-vision-in-acts-10-really-mean-the-kosher-food-laws-were-abolished/
And this: https://messianic-revolution.com/d14-13-what-peters-vision-of-the-great-sheet-of-animals-really-and-i-mean-really-meant/
Genesis 9:3
3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.
Noah enjoyed them Ham Sandwiches!
And the UNCLEAN animals at that time were pertaining to sacrifices that cannot be presented to God, not as a prohibition for food to eat.
No one ate meat before Genesis 9:3, but they did sacrifices with clean animals. But verse 3 talks about eating meat, and it states, EVERY moving thing, not limiting your diet to SOME moving things.
We are NOT under the law, which includes Leviticus 11. How many ways can we say that we are NOT under the law?
The law states that we are not allowed to eat meat offered to idols, and it is also repeated in Acts 15 for us.
But then we get to 1 Corinthians 8, and since we know that there is only ONE God, then that means that there are NO SUCH THING AS IDOLS to begin with, thereofre, EAT THE MEAT! Just don’t do it in front of an IGNORANT Christian that believes that there are idols.
See how that works?
Ed Chapman
Hey Ed,
If that’s your position…
And you plan to dogmatically stick with it…
And promote that perspective in every comment you make…
This blog might not be for you…
Just saying…
Just using scripture… just say’in.
With all that education that you have, the things you come up with is quite astounding.
I’ve studied the 7th Day Adventists, as well as the RETURNING TO OUR JEWISH ROOTS Gentiles a long time ago. We’ve got a famous one on my area. Mark Biltz. I’m in the Seattle area.
Ed Chapman
Hi Ed,
Quote: “1 Corinthians 8 . . .thereofre, EAT THE MEAT!” (sacrificed to idols)
You might be mis-reading the message of 1 Cor. 8. Paul’s bottom line on the question of “to eat, or not to eat” is ___________________ — which one?
Bear in mind – 40+ years later – Jesus is speaking to John on Patmos and reprimands two churches where the saints have been led astray to eat meat sacrificed to idols.
Knowing Paul and Jesus are in agreement on this issue, consider re-examining 1 Corinthians 8.
Good morning Eric. You and I have a completely different take on the story. Ya gotta read 1 Cor 8 slowly. I’m not being sarcastic, either. If there is only one God, then there is no such thing as other gods. That’s what 1 Cor 8 discusses. There is no such thing as an idol. But if YOU think that there are other gods, then YOUR conscience would be seared if you even looked at the meat. We aren’t Jews, no matter how much the blog owner wants us to live like Jews. Ba’al isn’t real, and does not exist. But those who worship an inanimate object are sinning, because THOU SHALT HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME. Hence, John at Patmos.
Jews were worshipping Ba’al. Christians worship Jesus.
The owner of this blog does not believe Jesus is worthy of worship, since he doesn’t believe that Jesus is God.
Ed Chapman
Now
Thanks for your reply, Ed. I did your suggestion with the re-reading slowly.
Paul is not actually teaching that other “little-g” gods do not exist, in fact the world is “full of them”. But compared to Yahweh they are are “nothing”.
This matches with the rest of the Bible’s teaching on Yahweh’s relationship with the other spirit beings he created (the Divine Council as some term it). For example, in Deut. 4 we learn there are “no gods besides” Yahweh, and in Deut. 6 Yahweh warns them not to worship other gods. Not to mention the first two ten commandments!
Is God schizo?
Or do “other gods” exist only in people’s heads?
No to both – In Deut. 32 we learn that demons (evil spirit beings) are the actual powers behind some or all of the “little-g” gods.
Jesus did not correct the Pharisees when they equated Ba’al with Satan but rather gave them further information about his “house”.
There is no indication that Jesus in Revelation believed that people eating meat sacrificed to idols had anything to do with what was in their heads or consciences regarding those idols.
A plain reading of the text makes it clear that eating meat sacrificed to idols (apart from how they exist / do not exist) is a sin in Jesus eyes, was a sin to the Disciples at the Jerusalem council, and is the wrong choice for Christians at all times and in all places (better to eat only vegetables).
Realize in 1 Cor. 8 (esp. when compared with 1 Cor. 10) Paul is poking at their “knowledge” that made them so superior. The bottom line for him is to “give no offense”. He agrees fully with the Acts 15 council (2 years previously).
But Paul chooses to try and persuade them based on love rather than give a bare command that was at risk of being ignored by the “superior” ones.
And let’s say I’m reading Paul’s arguments incorrectly. Let’s say he is NOT doing his usual plays on words with superiority and inferiority. Let’s saying he is NOT quoting his opponents words against them.
My guiding light is always the PLAIN words of Jesus and the PLAIN-spoken Apostolic instructions to all Gentile converts (that’s me!).
In fact, it would be okay if 1 Corinthians chapters 8 and 10 were accidentally LEFT OUT of the Bible altogether, because they are only a supplement to the clear teaching of the rest of the Bible and the words of Jesus and the Apostles in toto.
I’m glad the Lord saw fit to include them in our Bibles. But I will only allow them to harmonize (as all Scripture does). I will not allow those chapters to contradict and twist other PLAIN words of our Savior.
As far as “Jews worshipping Ba’al” and “Christians worshipping Jesus” . . .in the NT there was a lot of syncretism of pagan practices brought into BOTH Judaism and early Christianity – see Colossians 2, where the church was being influence by “elemental” spirit beings (stoichea) to practice a whole host of pagan practices, including fasting on certain new moon and feast days depending on the astrological calendar.
Be well,
Eric
Eric,
Let’s start out with:
Isaiah 43:10
10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Deuteronomy 4:28
And there ye shall serve gods, the work of men’s hands, wood and stone, which neither see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell.
Isaiah 44:6
6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
Galatians 4:8
8 Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
Isaiah 46:5-7
5 To whom will ye liken me, and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be like?
6 They lavish gold out of the bag, and weigh silver in the balance, and hire a goldsmith; and he maketh it a god: they fall down, yea, they worship.
7 They bear him upon the shoulder, they carry him, and set him in his place, and he standeth; from his place shall he not remove: yea, one shall cry unto him, yet can he not answer, nor save him out of his trouble.
Psalm 115:3-8
3 But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.
4 Their idols are silver and gold, the work of men’s hands.
5 They have mouths, but they speak not: eyes have they, but they see not:
6 They have ears, but they hear not: noses have they, but they smell not:
7 They have hands, but they handle not: feet have they, but they walk not: neither speak they through their throat.
8 They that make them are like unto them; so is every one that trusteth in them.
Malachi 2:10
Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us?
Mark 12:32
And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
————————–
NOW
1 Corinthians 8:6
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Now put THAT verse in the context of the whole chapter.
Verse 4
4 …we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
ONE GOD. The “many gods” can’t speak, see, hear, walk, smell. There is NO MENTION of “spirit beings” here.
Judges 18:24
And he said, Ye have taken away my gods which I made
Isaiah 42:17
They shall be turned back, they shall be greatly ashamed, that trust in graven images, that say to the molten images, Ye are our gods.
Jeremiah 2:11
Hath a nation changed their gods, which are yet no gods? but my people have changed their glory for that which doth not profit.
Acts 19:26
Moreover ye see and hear, that not alone at Ephesus, but almost throughout all Asia, this Paul hath persuaded and turned away much people, saying that they be no gods, which are made with hands:
The “gods” 1 Cor 8 is discussing is MAN MADE IDOLS. Not “spirit beings”.
Regarding HUMANS and ANGELS…
Psalm 82:6
I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
Both angels and humans are indeed “spirit beings”. We just happen to have a body, whereas angels don’t.
And that is where…
5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
comes into play.
We are all called gods in the sense of Psalms 82:6. But it was the man made idols that were being worshipped.
Most Christians that I know, KNOWS THIS about 1 Cor 8. But for the “Let’s return to our Jewish Roots” teachers, they think that they are UNDER THE LAW, because WE LOVE GOD. And they dismiss much of Paul’s words, as a lunatic.
1 Corinthians 10:29
Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another man’s conscience?
Ed Chapman
Eric,
Furthermore, I completely disagree with your conclusion about Colossians 2, as you make it pertain to what “pagans” did.
Verse 14 tells us that it was the Ordinances of the JEWS, not pagans.
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
And when you read verse 15, then you understand that “elements” is not discussing PAGAN this or PAGAN that at all.
Jesus abolished the OLD TEST LAWS, The LAW of “sin and death” (The Law of Moses), and Satan was ticked off about that, because he has NO POWER over our eternal life. Sin has NO POWER for Christians.
Romans 6:14
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
If sin has no power, then neither does Satan. This ain’t about pagan stuff. Pagan is just a convenient word to use for many things, such as Easter.
We can indeed celebrate Easter, because we know that Ishtar doesn’t exist. Goddess of Fertility…right?
Well, Bunnies are known for…?
Be FRUITFUL and multiply…
John 12:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
Jesus died, and expects the fruit to multiply. We worship Jesus on Easter, not Ishtar. EAT THE MEAT!
Ed Chapman
Recalling the sheep-pen scripture correlation model – There are verses that say “man-made idols are nothing”; yet there are other verses that say that the Mashiach had cast out many evil spirits from those who were possessed.
The sheep-pen model tells us that both verses are within the same sheep-pen of scripture, hence both are true (although they might seem contradictory).
How is that so?
Well, man-made idols (even when possessed by mighty unholy spirits) are indeed nothing in the presence of YHWH (eg Dagon); yet man/ idols possessed by unholy spirits, are not to be trifled with; they cannot be restrained even by iron chains!
Ed,
Yes, the dumb idols are a frequent target of prophets and poets because it *IS* so ludricrous to bring food and drink offerings to a “god” made of stone, etc. But even the people doing it knew the idol was a representation of a real spirit being (Dt. 32).
Quote: “But for the lLet’s return to our Jewish Rootsl teachers, they think that they are UNDER THE LAW, because WE LOVE GOD. And they dismiss much of Paul’s words, as a lunatic.”
I did not follow how this relates to our previous back-and-forth.
I have heard a dozen-ish Jewish Roots teachers teach that they are NOT under the law (for example, Rich on this website). Nor have I heard them dismiss Paul’s words or consider him a lunatic.
They do point out the few key places where Paul has been misunderstood as promoting lawlessness (life without Torah).
Peter warns that unstable and lawless people twist Paul’s words, which are – admittedly – difficult to understand. This 1 Cor. 8 passage seems like it may make the list 🙂
Thanks for the food for thought. I wish you well.
-E
Sorry it’s been so long to reply to this. I always find it amazing, or amusing, when people want to deny what 1 cor 8 states that you can eat meat offered to idols. Most Christians know this. But for those who don’t, they bring up Peter, about hard things to understand, or, how about this one… lean not on your own understanding.
The reason we can eat meat offered to idols is solely because there is no such thing but one God. Period.
But, you still think it’s a sin, so to you, it is a sin. Just like eating a ham sandwich.
Someday you will learn of the freedom that Jesus gives. I hope.
Ed,
I was going to be finished but just saw your most recent comment on Col. 2 so thought I’d jot a final quick note.
The practices described in Col. 2:16-18 have nothing to do with the Torah (which Paul holds in high esteem). Paul says they come from (1) philosophy, (2) human tradition, and (3) the elemental spirits of the world. No mention of the Torah.
Then look at the list of practices: (A) Rules about not eating drinking / tasting / touching on new moons and Sabbaths — not in Torah. (B) Aceticism — not in Torah. (C) Worship of angels — not in Torah. (D) Pride over visions — not in Torah. (E) A prideful sensual mind — not promoted by Torah.
The “record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands” is clear legal language regarding our sinfulness — a written record of the charges against us. These unambiguous technical terms likewise, are not a code-word for Torah.
This is basic grammatical and contextual interpretation. I’m not trying to make a larger point or score any points, only let the Bible speak for itself.
Take care,
-E
Eric, (expounding my last comment just a bit)
Just to clarify, I never said the word, “Torah”. You did. The old covenant does not begin in genesis 1. The old/first covenant/testament, as noted in Hebrews 8-10, begin in Exodus 20. And the Col 2 reference states, nailed to the cross, etc.
The old covenant is within the Torah, but is not the Torah.
I’m discussing the Old Covenant, and I have no idea what you are discussing, when using the words, “unambiguous technical terms”, etc.
How about reading Hebrews chapters 8 through 10. That tells you what I’m discussing. The OLD COVENANT. Not some PAGAN this or that. And 2 Col is NOT discussing pagan anything, either.
Let me show you how much Paul holds the law in such HIGH ESTEEM…your words…
Galatians 4:21
Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
Galatians 2:19
For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
Romans 7:4
Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ;
So much high esteem that he’s DEAD to the law. Threw it in the TRASH HEAP! Garbage.
Ed Chapman
Besides, what Pagan has a SABBATH? LOL.
Just to share (in context of above discussions & bible quotations) that we need to carefully distinguish between certain entities/ terminologies when reading the Hebraic Scriptures (TaNaKh [OT] & MTL [NT]), such as:
1) ish (man)
2) malakim (angels))
3) mashiach (anointed man/ king)
4) Mashiach (the Anointed One, the Christ)
5) ruachim (spirits, demons)
6) RUACH-kadosh (Holy-Spirit)
7) el; elohim (mighty, mighty man/ angel, god/ gods)
8) EL; ELOHIM (MIGHTY, MIGHTY ONE, GOD {YHWH})
9) EL SHADDAI (ALMIGHTY ELOHIM {YHWH})
10) EL ELYON (MOST HIGH GOD {YHWH})
11) adon; adoni (lord/ master, my lord/ my master)
12) ADONAI (my LORD {YHWH})
The proper translation & transliteration of crucial scripture terminologies are manifest in this “Book of The Covenant – An Integrated Translation & Transliteration of the Hebraic Scriptures”:
https://www.btc2023.net/
Just to clarify, I never said the word, “Torah”. You did. The old covenant does not begin in genesis 1. The old/first covenant/testament, as noted in Hebrews 8-10, begin in Exodus 20. And the Col 2 reference states, nailed to the cross, etc.
The old covenant is within the Torah, but is not the Torah.